If I didn't learn a little something new every day, it would hardly be worth leaving a warm bed each morning. So I view challenges as opportunities in that regard. I have learned a few valuable things over the past few days -- many of which you may all ready know yourselves but these were "aha!" moments for me so I thought I'd share:
(1) I am more capable of knee-jerk reactions based on a phrase or the implication of a viewpoint that I feel is trite and tiresome than I thought. I did it in the comments section of my very own blog. The insight came into this came because Una took me to task on it. Her comment turned my snide dismissal into an opportunity to find common ground with the person who was subject to the knee-jerk reaction. I like that about the people who visit this blog -- not afraid to call it like they see it. And, more importantly, not afraid to admit to a mistaken first impression.
The beauty of this is that both the anonymous commenter and I were able to see past our initial reactions to each other to the fact that we share common ground. I have more to learn about many things but one thing I know for sure is that each time you find a single point in common with someone you find more and more common ground. I have gained more knowledge and insight this way than through any number of books. Thank you to both the commenter and Una who made me rethink my knee-jerk reaction.
(2) I must stop assuming that all Democrats are pacifists. I'm afraid I spent a little too much time in 2004 and 2005 counter-protesting some VERY Liberal folks -- meaning "people stuck in the Vietnam era groupthink rut" -- here in Louisville who could only recite talking points and trite slogans. Their chants are the same; their signs are the same; and their limited mindset is the same as it was in the 1960s and '70s. Vietnam may very well have been a war worth questioning (as has been thoroughly documented); however this conflict is different. Times have changed and some people continue to color it with the same broad brush they used in a different time.
Thanks to Brad who asked for an explanation of my intent behind a recent post, I found myself in a civil discourse on the current conflict in Iraq. Let me tell you, it's been my experience that civil discourse about the war with a Democrat has been hard to find. Many of those I've met simply start with the Bush-bashing and resort to the groupthink of the 60s. In the end, they never really make a civil and/or logical point that prompts some more thought on my part. This time was different.
Brad is a Democrat I found some common ground with on the issue and who feels strongly about our national security and national defense. My impression is that he is no pacifist; he's a patriot. He's an intellect that must be heard regardless of party affiliation -- I hope other Conservatives have met their own Brads. We all need to see each other as Americans again. The insight I gained through the respectful exchange of ideas and opinions with him is invaluable.
(3) There are Democrats who find tax evasion shameful even when it's found in their own party. Let's face it, no one likes taxes but Democrats are insistent that they are the key to funding the needs of our society. So when they do NOT jump to the defense of a possible tax evader, they are showing the integrity that ought to be present in person regardless of party affiliation. Just as Conservatives value responsible capitalism, we ought to condemn the failures of our fellows when they claim Conservative values but do not follow them.
It seems to me that integrity is a common value among Americans. If there's one thing we expect of our fellow citizens, it's integrity. When we don't get that from prominent members of our community it is our responsibility to condemn them. This, again, is common ground that was found in yet another area of comments on this blog lately.
If you stuck with me this far into the post, you might be wondering why. I have a feeling it's because you, like I, value those moments when you find common ground in places you didn't expect to find it. You probably wish, now more than ever, that more people in the realm of political ideas would exercise more civility toward each other so that we could actually achieve something together. It feels good. It feels like the right thing to do, doesn't it?
So, with all this in mind today, I created a group on Google called "Finding Common Ground." Based on the discussions that blossomed on this blog this week, it seemed that a better forum was needed for those of us who enjoy the civil and thoughtful exchange of ideas. One that provided more real estate for composing and reading.
Imagine how much we might learn from each other. Imagine the spark we might ignite in others to stop clinging so mightily to a party affiliation long enough to find that simply as Americans we have enough common ground to see problems and solutions that work from many angles.
If you've never used a group before, it's relatively simple to figure out. I've started a few topics that I think are good ones for finding out what we have in common and insights that we might share to help each of us understand the perspective of the other. If you're interested, I hope you'll stop in and post when the mood hits you. Add your own topic, if you like. Whatever topic you're interested in finding common ground with others on.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained so if this little experiment fails, no harm done, right? If it sparks some interesting and thoughtful discussion and we find common ground with each other, it could just start a whole new way of thinking about this country's problems and ways to solve them.
(1) I am more capable of knee-jerk reactions based on a phrase or the implication of a viewpoint that I feel is trite and tiresome than I thought. I did it in the comments section of my very own blog. The insight came into this came because Una took me to task on it. Her comment turned my snide dismissal into an opportunity to find common ground with the person who was subject to the knee-jerk reaction. I like that about the people who visit this blog -- not afraid to call it like they see it. And, more importantly, not afraid to admit to a mistaken first impression.
The beauty of this is that both the anonymous commenter and I were able to see past our initial reactions to each other to the fact that we share common ground. I have more to learn about many things but one thing I know for sure is that each time you find a single point in common with someone you find more and more common ground. I have gained more knowledge and insight this way than through any number of books. Thank you to both the commenter and Una who made me rethink my knee-jerk reaction.
(2) I must stop assuming that all Democrats are pacifists. I'm afraid I spent a little too much time in 2004 and 2005 counter-protesting some VERY Liberal folks -- meaning "people stuck in the Vietnam era groupthink rut" -- here in Louisville who could only recite talking points and trite slogans. Their chants are the same; their signs are the same; and their limited mindset is the same as it was in the 1960s and '70s. Vietnam may very well have been a war worth questioning (as has been thoroughly documented); however this conflict is different. Times have changed and some people continue to color it with the same broad brush they used in a different time.
Thanks to Brad who asked for an explanation of my intent behind a recent post, I found myself in a civil discourse on the current conflict in Iraq. Let me tell you, it's been my experience that civil discourse about the war with a Democrat has been hard to find. Many of those I've met simply start with the Bush-bashing and resort to the groupthink of the 60s. In the end, they never really make a civil and/or logical point that prompts some more thought on my part. This time was different.
Brad is a Democrat I found some common ground with on the issue and who feels strongly about our national security and national defense. My impression is that he is no pacifist; he's a patriot. He's an intellect that must be heard regardless of party affiliation -- I hope other Conservatives have met their own Brads. We all need to see each other as Americans again. The insight I gained through the respectful exchange of ideas and opinions with him is invaluable.
(3) There are Democrats who find tax evasion shameful even when it's found in their own party. Let's face it, no one likes taxes but Democrats are insistent that they are the key to funding the needs of our society. So when they do NOT jump to the defense of a possible tax evader, they are showing the integrity that ought to be present in person regardless of party affiliation. Just as Conservatives value responsible capitalism, we ought to condemn the failures of our fellows when they claim Conservative values but do not follow them.
It seems to me that integrity is a common value among Americans. If there's one thing we expect of our fellow citizens, it's integrity. When we don't get that from prominent members of our community it is our responsibility to condemn them. This, again, is common ground that was found in yet another area of comments on this blog lately.
If you stuck with me this far into the post, you might be wondering why. I have a feeling it's because you, like I, value those moments when you find common ground in places you didn't expect to find it. You probably wish, now more than ever, that more people in the realm of political ideas would exercise more civility toward each other so that we could actually achieve something together. It feels good. It feels like the right thing to do, doesn't it?
So, with all this in mind today, I created a group on Google called "Finding Common Ground." Based on the discussions that blossomed on this blog this week, it seemed that a better forum was needed for those of us who enjoy the civil and thoughtful exchange of ideas. One that provided more real estate for composing and reading.
Imagine how much we might learn from each other. Imagine the spark we might ignite in others to stop clinging so mightily to a party affiliation long enough to find that simply as Americans we have enough common ground to see problems and solutions that work from many angles.
If you've never used a group before, it's relatively simple to figure out. I've started a few topics that I think are good ones for finding out what we have in common and insights that we might share to help each of us understand the perspective of the other. If you're interested, I hope you'll stop in and post when the mood hits you. Add your own topic, if you like. Whatever topic you're interested in finding common ground with others on.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained so if this little experiment fails, no harm done, right? If it sparks some interesting and thoughtful discussion and we find common ground with each other, it could just start a whole new way of thinking about this country's problems and ways to solve them.
 | ConservaChick: Finding Common Ground |
| Browse Archives at groups.google.com |
Comments
I've emailed Google to fix that setting so it should be gone in the next 24 hours. Please disregard it and pretend that ConservaChick really *is* smarter than that! D'oh!
First off, I am not very articulate which is why I rarely post on anyone's blog. You, on the other hand, are very articulate. That said, I am going to try to express myself regarding the possible, alleged tax "evasion(?)" of the democratic blogger Mark Nickolas.
Here's my part of the discussion. I am a democrat that tries very hard to look at the person and not the party affiliation. There have been times in my voting experience where I have been somewhat more impressed with the republican candidate over the democratic candidate. But, for some reason, (maybe because I so strongly believe in my party's platform) I have never, ever, ever been able to pull the lever for a republican. Sorry, but it's true.
I believe that the tax system IS set up to help the underprivileged. I recognize there is a wide "gray" line between the IRS defined "needy" and the IRS defined wages above "needy." I also admit that within that gray line there are people who have figured out how to manipulate the system to "hang on" to welfare even though they could and SHOULD find gainful employment. That said, I STILL do NOT wish to change the system that helps the underprivileged. I agree with the poster that said taxes are not a punishment. (Painful to pay but not a punishment.) I view paying taxes as my "donation" to the many, many good causes out there. I only wish I could deduct those "donations" off of my taxes - haha.
There truly are so many good causes. When I know my taxes help pay for free public education, salvation army, medical research at universities, roads, govt. salaries, water treatment, hospitals, food stamps for the poor, medical treatment for the poor, church groups, teen recreational facilities .... etc., I convince myself that my taxes are my "blanket" donation to all those groups and the many more that are not listed.
I am not naive enough to not recognize there is the possibility of corruption with those that benefit from taxes nor am I naive enough not to recognize there is the possibility of corruption within the agencies that obtain federal and state tax money. I do NOT think that just because some people lack integrity to abide by laws, and therefore "dodge" the laws that we should do away with the system ONLY BECAUSE there really are people who truly NEED the system. The needy people outweigh the corrupt individuals for me.
As a result of my strong belief in helping those that cannot help themselves it infuriates me when corporations or individuals "dodge" the tax system. My infuriation is magnified when the "dodger" is from MY OWN PARTY!!!! Not to be callous, but I would expect a republican corporation to dodge taxes before a democratic corporation to dodge taxes. If for no other reason than party platform.
I don't know Mark Nickolas and from the sounds of it, I hope I never meet him. After hearing all the "evidence" from posters and after reading his website he does not sound to be the same type of democrat as I. I find it hard to believe that he has made no attempt to address this very important issue, which admittedly speaks volumes of .... ?????
Finally, I have read some of the posts that accuse the people that are requesting IRS proof of exemption etc., of "having their toes stepped on" by Nickolas. What a preposterous notion. Those who accuse supposedly come from Mark Nickolas' Democratic blog - what is wrong with that group of so-called democrats that they too are not asking Mr. Nickolas to prove his corporation is in compliance with tax codes. How can any group, republican and especially democrat sit by idly and do NOTHING when there is so many valid questions about his corporation? How can Mr. Nickolas sit idly by and let this happen?
Well as I said, I am not articulate, but I am so infuriated by the cavalier attitude of my democratic party members that are so quick to judge a republican but ignore the goings on within their own blogosphere. Their cavalier attitude and their attempts at trying to discredit valid questions reminds me of the "blind" followers of Jim Jones. How can they NOT see???? Thus, how can they NOT have questions????
I did notice that Mr. Nickolas is out of the blogworld today posting that he would be attending meetings all day. Perhaps he is meeting with the IRS to straighten out this issue.
Just to set the record straight, I discovered Dawn's blog because I visit Mark's blog. There seems to be an undercurrent in some of the postings on this subject that some of us "were sent here" or "come from" there. Look, I "come from" all over the internet. I wasn't sent here. I made that choice and I'm glad I did.
I think you make some excellent points (and articulated them just fine!) But I don't think anyone needs to feel shocked or disgusted that there are democratic tax dodgers just as there are republican dodgers. (See, Dawn, more common ground:-)
The point that I have tried to make in a few of my posts here is that the relentless vehemence with which the subject is being discussed seems way out of proportion to the crime. I believe Nickolas and his lawyers will likely get this settled. The crowd of townspeople with torches and pitchforks are interesting but not necessary for the law to take its course. As a fellow democratic party member, and one who respects the rule of law as much as anyone, please forgive me if I just don't want to pick up a torch on this.
I'm not sure where that puts me in your categories of political pigeonholes. Please know that just because I don't get as worked up about this it doesn't mean that I'm being cavalier. It just means I have a different point-of-view.
I say your attitude is "careless" because no post I have seen is calling for the "townspeople to pick up a torch." You are trying to manipulate the readers into thinking that the mere request and desire to keep a Corporation in compliance with tax laws is somehow being a “bully.“ Republicans are not as easily manipulated as the Nickolas-Democrats appear to be.
Are you not curious regarding his silence, are you afraid to ask him because you know he won’t answer? I don't think any post I read, including the ones asking to see IRS documents reflect that anyone has picked up a torch. The questions pertaining to any corporation staying in compliance is not akin to picking up a torch. It is akin to STAYING WITHIN THE LAW.
You say that you won't get worked up even if Mr. Nickolas is not in compliance. Would you say that if it were a republican not in compliance? I have read your posts on the other blog and you seem quick to judge the people Nickolas posts about, even the threads that have no facts to back them up.
Just because a person asks to see IRS documents does not mean that person is getting "worked up" either. However, when questions are asked about a corporation and the corporation ignores and remains silent ... suspicions arise. So, if you please do not try to insult our intelligence by pretending that your attitude would be this cavalier if we were talking about a republican blog out of compliance. The fact is if you ARE a fellow tax payer and a fellow democrat you would be annoyed and wanting to get to the bottom of ANYONE or ANY Corporation out of compliance.
As a fellow poster has said, You sir/ma'am, have done a TYPICAL political party Flip Flop with your Corporate Tax stance. Your ploy of distraction by making those Americans that want Corporations to stay in compliance will not work in this wee part of the blogosphere. Did you pitty Mr. Todd when he was involved in Tax Fraud of the correction facilities? He was sent to prison you know. But, he was a Republican perhaps your torch burning brightly then?
If Mr. Nickolas has nothing to hide then why is he hiding?
How can anyone, red, blue, purple or neutral, say WHAT YOU DID, "Bit I don't think anyone needs to feel shocked or disgusted that there are democratic tax dodgers..." WHAT?!?!?!
Yes, SHOCKED! The democrats are PRO tax, incase you didn't know.
Yes, DISGUSTED! Anyone that dodges Uncle Sam and keeps the money without reporting income is DISGUSTING and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
If Mr. Nickolas is guilty of tax evasion he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law just as anyone who dodges Uncle Sam my dear "fellow Democrat."
Do not pretend to be a democrat if you do not support the REASONS behind paying taxes if you are going to allow for people or Corporations to evade taxes. You are NO democrat because you clearly have a FLIP/FLOP agenda which is NOT the party platform.
As far as your "torch burning" comment ... You seem to be describing Mr. Nickolas. I have read too many threads which are false stories where he tries to get you "simpleton" blind followers to pick up your torches and RUN or rather "CHARGE" the person who HE decides should go up in flames. Most recently was the call for his blind followers to pick up their torches and "CHARGE" the KDP and "demand" that Lundergan get oust so that HIS lawyer friend, Jennifer Moore, could take over the Democratic party. If she is anything like him then I pity my party.
So, before you come on Dawn's blog and accuse reasonable requests from those that demand Corporations stay in compliance with tax laws of "torching" poor Mark Nickolas, clean up your own chat room blog. After observing that chat room it is clear to any casual observer, even those with wee intellectual levels, that Mr. Nickolas' chat room is nothing more than a site for hate-speech with no productive discussion anywhere. Mr. Nickolas is NO Thomas Paine. Mr. Paine did not need to make up lies to get his point across. Mr. Paine was not diabolical. The threads Mr. Nickolas writes are intended to create hatred amongst his readers. The acts that Mr. Nickolas stoops to are DIABOLICAL. Mr. Nickolas runs that so-called tax-exempt blog more like chat room for "skin head" hate, hate, hate is all that comes out of their mouths.
As I say, before you come to this clean, peaceful part of the blogosphere, clean up your own bloghome, open your eyes and put out your torch.
As for kyguy not feeling as strongly about tax evasion (or the appearance of such), that's his prerogative, I suppose. However, pardon me for thinking that the apathy he expresses about these types of issues is much of what is wrong with our form of government and our country these days. To sigh and say, "Oh well. It happens." is very similar to witnessing a traffic accident and not stopping to assist while telling yourself that someone else will stop to help. It's a form of denial. When we take action based on what we know is true and right, we do ourselves and our fellow human beings a service. To simply turn your head is doing a disservice to everyone involved. I'm no fan of apathy.
As I wrote during the run up to mid-term elections, making no choice on an issue is still taking a position, making a choice. I often wonder at those who think that the appearance of flaunting the law is not worth a second look. Even when Atty General Stumbo accused the Fletcher administration of misdeeds in the hiring process, I felt a need to take a second, third, and fourth look at the issue. I helped in the grassroots effort to get him elected. I felt strongly about his qualifications. I was very disappointed in the way he handled the issue when it was brought up and I *definitely* had an opinion on it. Whether the appearance of impropriety is in the Republican party or in the Democratic party, it must be examined.
I applaud all of the commenters who "picked up a torch" over the questions raised by the first anonymous commenter with regard to Mr. Nickolas's lack of records with the IRS. They have opinions because they pay taxes like all other law-abiding citizens. I suspect that anyone who chooses not to play by the rules (like them or not) would likely choose to let that torch lay unlit. And, unfortunately, that is his/her choice, isn't it?
Well, interesting last post you wrote. I wonder if this means you will ask Mark Nickolas the very simple question of Public Inspection, or if you are just going to concede that this is not the part of the blogosphere that you can publish hypocritical ideas and have the same nasty backing you have when you post on the Mark Nickolas "hate speech" blog????
I guess if you don't ask Mark Nickolas then you really didn't learn anything did you Kyguy?
I wonder, did you think that your attempts to cloud the issue would work and that posters would eat at and chomp at those who are wanting to hold Mark Nickolas accountable to his accounting practices?
Ah! We shall never know your true beliefs. Just as Mark Nickolas will never answer, nor shall you.
Why don't you and I both email him with similar questions? Heck, why doesn't everyone who's commented here do this?... Well, it crossed my mind. I went to his blog and found that the only button/link available for communication is the "Donate" button! Yikes. Apparently, he's not running a blog; he's running a website where you can donate money but not have any interaction with the author. That, in and of itself, makes quite a statement, if you ask me.
Does anyone even know how to contact Mr. Nickolas by email?...